Interview with Hein Adamson – Part 1
Already i have conveyed my understanding of the Dimensions of Mohanji. So, now will move onto this ‘cool interview’ with Hein.
This interview with my ‘soul brother’ Hein Adamson was to the point and a matter of fact one. Hein has provided really simple, objective and clear answers to many of our nudging queries about the path and how to walk this path… Simple objective ‘one liners’ yet profoundly deep are the essence of this interview. Nath tradition in action.Total spontaneity and fluidity is what underlies this interview 🙂 .
Edited the video to make it bearable as already said 🙂 . Even added hip hop music at the end LOL!!! My first edition so expect some cool use of cinematic and music. Was experimenting with the video edition software. Also was not well on that day which explains the cough.
Here’s the Transcript of the interview…
Introductions first :
Hein Adamson(H): My name is Hein 26 years old being connected with mohanji for almost 3 years now and…
Ayush(A) : The fascinating thing is that you being a foreigner a south African guy and Mohanji an Indian guy what attracted you to him?!
H: it was his naturalness and his peace not putting a show on no pretention. Just a natural guy.
Ayush: Appearances didn’t matter?!
Hein: No they did. I liked his appearance. Because, he dresses and acts and behaves ike a modern man. He is a contemporary man. I like the fact that he was modern he was speaking to these times.
A: Specific to the times and needs of today?!
A:So the crux of Mohanji’s teachings since I too am a devotee I have been connected to Mohanji approxly for 2 years. The base is selflessness and unconditional love even the main tagline or the primary teaching of Mohanji is “unconditional love is our true nature”. So can you give us your view on this teaching how to follow this teaching how to live up to this teaching of expressing unconditional love as our true nature?!”
H: Well the best way that I do it umm trying to put in my all time daily life is that if I had no needs if I was already existing in completeness if I garaged what would be my expression in the world?!
A:So, what is this unconditionality we are talking about because in our daily lives, normally, we expect, if we give something we also expect something in return
H:well I think you sort of answered in your question it is EXPECTATIONS. Unconditional love is no expectation. I don’t expect you to take good advice. I don’t expect you to give anything back to me. I don’t expect you to behave a certain way or think a certain way.
A: So it’s a kind of State.
H: It is definitely a state.
A: Well, Talking about this state. Sounds very cool. If I am the object or the subject of one expressing unconditional love to me. Then, it will be bliss for me as I can depend on him anytime. So to attain that state. To attain this unconditional love state. How one should strive for it?!
H: well you know it ties into Mohanji’s other teachings. One being objectivity. Being objective about everything that happens in your life. Being unemotional.
H:Unemotional, Meaning umm, Mohanji talks about levels of operation. You can operate from emotions or you can operate from intellect. And then ultimately emotional operation intellectual operation spiritual operation. So, I would say being objective means operating more from intellect.
A: Operating from the intellect and not from our minds and senses?!
H: Yes! So that there is more distance between you and to what is happening around. You are aware that the emotion you are expressing is not me.
A: So I think we are taking of an emotion free expression. Expressing our self purely based on objectivity. So how to attain this ‘objectiveness’ that we are talking about? Because in our day to day life we get attached to people, places & things. Small small things. We dont want to let go. SO how to get this feeling of detachment how to detach from things?
H: I would say awareness. Practice on awareness. In my experience the more aware you aare the more you automatically detach. You automatically get objectivity.
A:So awareness brings in detachment.
H: I would say yes.
A:What kind of awareness?!
H: Everything that happens. Everything that you can be aware off. Everything you should be aware off. I am moving my body. I am aware of the movements of the body. I am speaking words. I am aware of the words being spoken. I am having thoughts. I am aware of the thoughts that I am thinking.
A: So, kind of being conscious of everything.
H: Being conscious of everything yes!! You know watching everything
A: Watching Everything, witnessing everything.
H: Being a witness of everything that happens.
A: Talking about your experiences of the path of Mohanji. Can you please share and throw some light on some of them.
H: It is really difficult coz a lot of people have had big visions.
H: Metaphysical sort of beyond body, beyond mundane reality kind of experiences. And I haven’t. My experiences have been much more quite experiences. Experience of peace. And that kind of thing one thing that I have experienced is… how to take care of every aspect of your life. The more you are surrender state. Every single need from your huge spiritual ambitions. To getting food in your stomach is all taken care off.
A: So, it can be said that he is kind of established in the state of unconditional love and you are his subject.
H: Yes. Whatever he speaks about unconditional love he lives that.
A: So, there are teachings that Mohanji talks about. He says that teachings will elevate you. Following the teachings will elevate you. So, do you have any kind of experience regarding this means living his teachings and then gaining some experience , some knowledge.
H: Well, There are a few things that I watch for. My A few basic guidelines. That, If I am meeting them than I am growing. One is to have less fear. And do I have more clarity. So I have found that practically living Mohanji’s Teachings makes me less fearful. And gives me greater clarity.
A: Fearlessness stems from within?!
H: Yes! Bcoz, It all happens from inside it is not something that can easily be seen or felt. Or experienced through the senses.
A:Mohanji guides you to your inner self?!
H: Exactly I would say.
A: So if inner self is everything guidelines from ourselves our inner light is everything if I can say that. Than why we need a guru?! Why we need an external guru.
H: One thing to realise that is that it is only the mind that is different from the guru. That here is me and there is someone called a ‘Guru’. You are the guru. He look like he is external but he is within. The external guru with the name and form of Mohanji is just a projection of the internal guru. And this is called Guru tattva or guru principle.
A: And he always says to connect in consciousness. Not to get attached to his body. So why is it so important to connect to his consciousness and what one gains by connecting to his consciousness?! What are his experiences?!
H: Well, I would say connecting to your consciousness takes you to yourself. Consciousness will never leave you the body may die. It will be burnt or buried. Either his body will die or my body will die. So connect in consciousness.
A: So, body has a temporariness aspect attached to it?!
H: As Mohanji says body exists in time. Whereas consciousness is timeless.
A: So, talking of this time and space. Mohanji, says that he is eternal in the absolute reality. But talking of this linear reality where we are living. He says that time and space are relative and what is absolute is you and your consciousness. How to interpret this because for a layman for the one who is not attached to Mohanji and his teachings who can’t experience so for a layman it becomes difficult to understand this can you put just in simple terms what he is trying to say what is the summation of this teaching?
H:it is really difficult to answer that
A: Well I think only a disciple can answer it?
H: I would say, you need to basically realise whatever you are looking for whatever you ought to experience. Is already there. But the mind which looks outside. Tends to look into the future based on relativity. As you say. Which requires time and space.
A: So when we talk of consciousness and experiencing the consciousness. What one should need to experience the consciousness. (rephrasing)What is the pre-requisite to experience his consciousness? What one should ‘do’ to experience his consciousness?
H: No doing. If you need something to do than I would say ‘be empty’. Automatically consciousness is there.
A: Being empty is I think ‘easier said then done. ‘
H: Yea, It is, Then again I would say Awareness is the thing you need. If you need to silence your mind. You can’t silence your mind. But you can be aware of your thoughts. Then when Awareness is there automatically thoughts dissolve.
A: So ultimately we have to expand our awareness?
H:Be with whatever you do.
A: We should be with our actions. Be with our thoughts. Be with our words.
H: But with a clear knowledge that that is not you. You are the one who is witnessing all that.
A: So, these things are interdependent knowledge comes out of awareness. And awareness would come out of Knowledge.
H: this is what guru tattva is guru principle gives the knowledge that you need.
A: Also, On the net(internet) we have and everywhere not only on the internet. We have a tremendous amount of information. An information overload about spirituality and many concepts like there are some channellings done by alien races, ET races( KRYON and BASHAR). You must have seen. And then there are concepts of Kundalini and all. So how one can differentiate between one who are selling the concepts and a true Master?! How one should know?!
H: True Masters deliver experiences. Others can give you only concepts.
A: So, the concepts are not Transformative ?!
H: No, No… Concepts are like doing Maths, reading a Novel. It doesn’t as you said Transforms.
A : Talking about ‘elevation in consciousness.’ Since, I am on the path of seeking I am a seeker. I can’t understand the ‘levels of consciousness’ that we are talking about. If we are mentioning the term ‘elevation’ than we will have to talk about ‘levels.’ So what are the levels of consciousness and how one can judge or see that we are elevating. What is the parameter what is the indicator?
H: I would say the more selfish you are the more lower levels of consciousness you see. But the more your vision, your awareness, your consciousness includes ‘every body.’ That is the higher consciousness.
A: Means Higher consciousness expresses itself in ‘selflessness.’ And lower consciousness in ‘selfishness.’
H: Yes, obviously that is the measure you know.
A: So what is the use…ahem.. ‘use’ would not be the right word.. What one ‘gets’ because ultimately if I do anything, if you do anything, if anyone else does anything. It has a tinge of selfishness attached to it. That what I will get from it?!
So, why one should strive for this higher consciousness?!
H: To answer this I will give you a quite simple or too boring an answer. But, basically because it feels Good Closer you are to the higher consciousness… the more bliss will you experience of existence.
A: This bliss that we are talking about. What is this bliss?!
H: I would say you can call it ‘Bliss’ because it never changes.
A: Your state never changes.
H: Your state never changes. The Bliss state never changes.
A: Means you are kind of unaffected by everything.
H: I wouldn’t say that life stopped. You still have happiness, you still have sadness, pain, pleasure all these things. But it doesn’t really touch you. You become established as the ‘witness’ of these things.
A: You are not the doer. So, it may be said that the ultimate realisation of the ‘path of pathlessness’ is realizing that ‘you are not the doer’.
H: I would say ‘yes’ . Realizing what is already there all the time.
A: What was guiding us?! Coz I checked out one blog of Mohanji on pkmohan.wordpress.com… In every blog he has mentioned the word ‘conscious(of thoughts words and actions)’ and the oft-repeated term is consciousness and ‘connecting to consciousness’
So, is being conscious of thoughts, words and actions the ultimate objective of the path?
H: Yes, I think so. The destination is consciousness and the path is consciousness.
A: And ‘Consciousness’ plus ‘liberation’(another oft-repeated term)
H: Aaah that is the thing when you become perfectly established in consciousness. It has no limits. When I say consciousness. What my idea of it is that it is not a ‘thought.’
A: It’s an experience?
H: It’s an experience. Thought is what is ‘limiting.’ Thought is what is is binding. So, consciousness automatically is ‘liberation’.
A: In a previous interview with Mohanji. It was a very frank 1. I just asked him what was his mission? Why has he incarnated at this point of time on Earth? So, why is this liberation so important?
H: Because liberation takes you out of Duality, otherwise it is constant back and forth swinging. In my experience, to put in simple terms to have 1 hour of joy you have to have 1 hour of pain. That is the nature of everything that exists.
A: Positive exists than negative also exists.
H:Exactly, so liberation takes you out of that. You don’t have to swing back and forth all the time. One day you are ok. Next day you are not ok.
A: So we can say that liberation from duality?! Duality means which manifests in happiness and sorrow, joy and fear so and so…
A: In our path the path of ‘Shiva’ as guruji says… He stresses on ‘Kicking the butt’ so What is kicking the butt like? And if he kicks a ‘disciples butt’ how one should react or respond? How one should carry himself/herself forward?
H: Gratitude… every single step of the way… Bcoz most of the time he expresses himself very gently , very lovingly….But sometimes it feels like you are being burnt…like there is fire coming….like he is angry with you…but the thing is to remember that no matter what his expression its all coming from love… So take it with gratitude…guruji is kicking my butt ok I am grateful…. Guruji has given me work to do …ok I am grateful…
A: So, in fact he is attacking the ‘Tamas’ in you?
H: He is you in fact…. How can he attack himself?!
A: He is there also here also
H: So he is attacking a part of you..
A: SO the this realization that you have that he is there also here also…this I think is the destination of the spiritual path…to find guru who is external… internally within
H: And I think through grace when we get an external guru is to keep ego in check as well…
A: So, the grace factor that you mentioned the ‘grace factor’ is very important?
H: Yes, the grace factor elevates you, it is not your practise not your knowledge anything it is only grace.
A:So is their way to manifest grace in our lives?
H: Grace is always there. There is not one moment when there is no grace. Grace gives you breath grace lets you eat. Grace gives you a warm place. If you are hungry it is also grace and if you are cold it is also grace. So, I wouldn’t say that you can manifest grace. But I think you can take steps to be more aware of the grace. To see it too feel it.
A: So, it can be said that grace is always there but we are not aware of it. So why is grace so important? In our path why is it necessary to have grace. To experience grace to be aware of grace.
H: Because, I think you know the spiritual journey is long. It is very very very long. Life after life after life after life.(lifetimes) I mean many many many many many lyftimes.And you know, It is so subtle and so silent that you can miss time and time again. I think for each of us there has been a time where we were at the doorstep of the highest consciousness. But we missed it. How many times how many lives how many concepts? That is why Grace is important.
A: To grant us liberation.
And you are also writing a blog I think so.
H: Yes, it is called ‘Mohanji and I’ part 1, part 2 is coming. Yea, Basically…I talk about ‘How I met Mohanji.’ One thing that I thought I would share is when you meet a Master. You never have to go looking. As they say guru tatva is always there for you. When you are ready he will fetch you.
A: The guru tatwa will happen
H:you can fight it still it will come.
A: As you mentioned that you met him. So how did you meet him was it kind of a metaphysical experience, Supernatural occurences. Thunder and lightning appeared 🙂 .
H: Something I did like. But no actually it was very simple. Which is also a teaching. Your experienes are also teaching it is not necessary that Mohanji’s words are the only teachings. So I met Mohanji through Facebook. Actually my parents met him through facebook. And then they were telling me about him and I was not interested. He didn’t fit my frames.(A:Expectations?) Expectations… again how many lives because of expectations. Or some concepts you have you miss. But then one day I was desperate enough. Mohanji always assay that there are two ways you can be in surrender. Two ways you can connect with divinity. One is surrender and one is (A: helplessness) helplessness. Surrender was not the way for me I had to become helpless. But, That is Grace as well. Which makes you helpless so that you connect.
A: So, I think as someone in a previous interview mentioned that he had an acquaintance. This guy was a alcoholic and a non- vegetarian but still(was connected to Mohanji hence) Mohanji’s grace happened. So, talking of instances like these, cases like these. What is the parameter to asses grace what is the prerequisite of getting grace? Is it kind of inner purity?
H: This is what Mohanji teaches is purity. It is eligibility actually. And purity leads too eligibility. Selflessness is purity. The expression of purity is selflessness.
A: So, if we constantly express ourselves selflessly… we are getting pure inside.
H: Yes, I would say.
A: What is the other expression of that purity.
H: Love, I would say ‘selfless Love’… There are many dimensions to it. I would say you are more spontaneous. But you are also very sensitive. Purity makes you sensitive. God is trying to get in all the time(A: Knocking on the door) Knocking on the door all the time. In the same way life is a series of moments. Are you ready? are you ready ? Then you say no. (A:That will has to happen intention has to happen?!) So I would say, Purity is just yes yes yes!!! That you allow it to happen.
A: So, ultimately it is your intention that carries you forward.
H: You have to ask. There must be intention of what I would like to plase help me. It will be helped.
A: Talking about frames that we have of gurus. And as you mentioned earlier Mohanji destroyed all your frames. So why is this being frameless and this aspect non-expectancy. Why is it so important?
H: Because God is unlimited. Liberation is unlimited thing. Consciousness is unlimited. It never ends. Frames and concepts and expectations. These kind of things its all limitations.
A: They are binding…
H: They are binding. You will never be able to fit infinity into a limited.
A: coz of we operate from our limited mind and intellect?!
A: I read it in a book(actually 🙂 )